Sunwave · Level 4

Complex Pricing

Repipes, waterlines, sewer lines, big filtration installs, complex water heater installs, and drain line replacements inside the house. The formula doesn't change up here, what changes is how confident you are in what you feed it. This is about building that confidence, and about using the experienced techs well when you don't have it yet.

The goal is that you can eventually do this on your own. But we believe in collaboration, so knowing how to run a good call with a diagnostic expert, what to have ready, what to ask, and what to send, is a real skill worth developing. Done well, a ten-minute call turns a shaky guess into a price you can stand behind.

Hours are the whole game

Everything else on a big job you can count. Hours you have to predict.

On a big job you can count the parts, you can count the fixtures, you can measure the linear feet, and you can look up the excavator days. All of that is arithmetic. The one input that decides whether the job makes money is how many hours it actually takes, and that's the one input you have to predict.

This is why level shortcuts stop working at this size. A Level number is a fast way to communicate a familiar job. A repipe is not a familiar job, every house is different. Run the formula, every time, and put real thought into the hours. Then use the difficulty factors honestly instead of leaving them at zero, because on complex work the access, the skill required, and the risk are often what separate a profitable job from a painful one.

A useful habit: after every big job, compare what you quoted to what it actually took. That feedback loop is how experienced techs got good at predicting hours, and it's the fastest way for you to get there too.

Before you pick up the phone to call for help

Do your own homework first. The call should check your thinking, not replace it.

Walk the whole job with the Big Job Helper

What you should do

Pull up the Big Job Helper for the job type and actually work through the questions on site, not from the truck. Count every fixture, measure the runs, check the depth, look at the crawlspace, find the access route, and note the pipe material you're removing.

Why you do it

Those questions exist because each one maps to hours. A tight crawlspace, plaster instead of drywall, or a line that runs under a driveway can each swing a job by a day. If you answer them on site you're pricing what's actually there instead of what you assumed.

Write down what you can't know

What you should do

Separately list the things you genuinely cannot see: routing inside finished walls, what's under the slab, the condition of pipe you haven't exposed, whether a pull will take. Be specific about each unknown rather than feeling generally unsure.

Why you do it

Naming the unknowns turns vague anxiety into a short list you can actually get help with. It also tells you where the risk sits, which is exactly what you need to price a buffer and to set the customer's expectations honestly.

Form your own number first

What you should do

Before you call anyone, run the formula yourself and commit to a number, along with the reasoning: this many hours because of these conditions, this much in parts, these factor ratings, these excavator days.

Why you do it

You learn far more from being corrected on a real attempt than from being handed an answer. It also makes the call dramatically faster, because instead of describing a job from scratch you're asking someone to pressure-test a specific estimate.

Photos to send the diagnostic expert

They can only help with what they can see. Send these before the call, not during it.

The overview

A wide establishing shot of each area involved, so they can orient themselves.
A slow video walkthrough where you narrate what you're seeing and pointing at.
Shots from the same angle a person would walk it, not from odd angles that distort distance.

Connection points

Close shots of every point you'll tie into: meter, water heater, manifold, existing stacks, cleanouts.
The existing pipe material and its condition, especially any corrosion or prior repairs.
Valve and shutoff condition where you'll isolate.

Access and route

The crawlspace entry, attic hatch, basement stairs, and any doorway you have to get material through.
How tight it actually is once you're inside, including whether it's wet or encapsulated.
Anything you'd have to move: furniture, shelves, permanent cabinets.

Scale and measurement

Put a tape measure in the frame, pulled to a known length, so they can judge size from the photo.
Shoot straight on rather than at a sharp angle, angled shots make lengths hard to read.
Use good light, turn lights on or use a work light, dark photos are nearly useless.

The obstacles

The dig path: trees, sidewalk, driveway, patio, landscaping, and where other utilities run.
Wall and ceiling material where you'll be cutting, and roughly how much has to come out.
Anything that made you hesitate when you looked at it, that hesitation is usually the expensive part.

The surroundings

Electrical panel and available outlets if the job needs power.
Where discharge, backwash, or condensate would have to run.
Ceiling height, floor condition, and finished surfaces you'll need to protect.

Send first, talk second. If the expert is looking at your photos while you talk, the whole call gets shorter and better. Photos landing mid-call means they're scrolling instead of thinking.

Running the call well

Respect their time and you'll get far more out of them.

Have this ready before you dial

The job type and scope in one sentence.
Your counts and measurements: fixtures, linear feet, depth, floors, pipe sizes.
Photos and video already sent.
Your draft number and the hours behind it.
Your specific list of unknowns.

Open with your thinking

Lead with the job, your estimate, and your reasoning in about thirty seconds.
Then go straight to your unknowns, that's what you actually need them for.
Let them correct your assumptions rather than starting from a blank page.

Ask targeted questions

“I'm at 14 hours for this repipe, does that sound right for plaster walls and a tight crawlspace?”
“What usually takes longer than people expect on this kind of job?”
“If the pull fails here, what does the backup plan cost me in time?”
“What would you add to my parts list that I'm likely missing?”

Avoid these

“How much should I charge?” with no attempt of your own, it wastes their time and teaches you nothing.
Describing the job vaguely when you could have measured it.
Calling from the driveway before you've actually walked the job.
Asking a question the Big Job Helper already answers.

Capture the reasoning

Write down why, not just the number they landed on.
Note which conditions drove the hours up, that's the part you're trying to learn.
Confirm what is and isn't included in the scope before you hang up.

Close the loop later

Tell them how the job actually went and what it really took.
That feedback makes their next answer better and builds your credibility.
It's also how you find out whether your instinct is improving.

What blows up the hours

The conditions that most often make a big job take far longer than it looks.

Slab and buried lines

Chasing lines under a slab can add substantially to rough-in labor.
Concrete cutting, dust control, and patching are their own jobs.
You often can't confirm routing until you're already committed.

Crawlspaces and attics

Tight, wet, or unencapsulated crawlspaces slow everything down.
Every part has to be dragged in, and every mistake means crawling back out.
Attic work in summer heat cuts real productivity hard.

Finished walls

Cutting, protecting, and cleaning up is often more time than the pipe work.
Plaster is meaningfully worse than drywall, more mess and more fragile.
Drywall repair has to be scheduled and priced, it is not free.

Removing old material

Cast iron and galvanized removal is heavy, slow, and awkward.
Old pipe rarely comes apart the way you expect.
Disposal and hauling takes time nobody budgets.

Outside obstacles

Depth drives everything on a dig, and so does soil condition.
Driveways, sidewalks, patios, and mature trees each add time and risk.
Unmarked or surprise utilities can stop a job cold.

Everything around the work

Moving furniture, protecting floors, and daily cleanup.
Permits and waiting on inspections.
Two-story access and hauling material up and down.
Customer decisions made mid-job.

Use the difficulty factors for exactly this. Difficult access, skills required, and risk aren't decoration, they're how the formula accounts for conditions like these. Leaving them at zero on a hard job is how you end up working for free.

Price the risk, don't hope

Build in a buffer. Big jobs rarely go exactly to plan. Something behind a wall, under a slab, or in the ground will surprise you. A price with no room in it turns every surprise into lost profit.
Price the backup plan. If a waterline pull might fail, you should already know what the dig costs in time and what you'd need to execute it. See the section below on quoting both prices up front.
Don't discount uncertainty. The instinct when you're unsure is to shave the number so the customer says yes. That's backwards, uncertainty is a reason to price more carefully, not more cheaply.
Wide ranges mean wide variables. Two sewer jobs of the same footage can be completely different work depending on depth, obstructions, and what's on top of the line. Price the job in front of you, not the average job.
Price in phases when you genuinely can't see. You can almost always figure out the scope, so this should be rare. But in a few situations the honest answer is that the first part of the job has to happen before the rest can be priced. In that case, quote the first phase, do it, and then price what you've uncovered. It isn't ideal, but it's sometimes the safest thing for the company and the most honest thing for the customer. Even expert plumbers can't see underground, through walls, or underneath floors, and the customer ultimately carries that risk, it's their home.

Quote the backup price too

When a job has a plan A that might not work, price both paths and present both up front.

Some big jobs have a fast path and a fallback. A waterline is the clearest example: if the pull works, it's one price. If the pull fails and you have to open up a trench instead, it's a different, higher price. We don't wait to find out before we talk about it.

Work out both numbers before you start, then walk the customer through both: here's what it costs if it goes as planned, and here's what it becomes if we hit this specific problem and have to switch to the backup plan. Get them comfortable with both before anyone puts a shovel in the ground.

Why we do it this way

The customer is never blindsided. They already agreed to the number before it became necessary.
You're not renegotiating mid-job with a trench open and their water off, which is the worst possible moment to talk money.
It protects the job's profit. Without it, the fallback work usually gets eaten rather than charged.
It builds trust. Being upfront that something might not work reads as honest, not unsure.

How to present it

Lead with the plan A price and why you think it'll work.
Name the specific thing that would force the switch, don't be vague about it.
Give the plan B price plainly, in the same conversation.
Confirm they're good with both before you begin.

Where this applies

Waterline pulls that may have to become an open trench.
Trenchless sewer work that may need to be dug.
Repipes where the routing behind finished walls is unknown until it's open.
Any job where the condition of what you find could change the scope.

Both numbers need to be real. The backup price isn't a scare tactic or a rough guess, run it through the formula the same way you ran plan A. If you have to fall back to it, you should be able to do that work profitably without going back to the customer again.

The costs people forget

These get left out of big quotes constantly. Each one is real money.

Drywall or plaster repair, scheduled and paid for after you're done.
A cleaning company, especially after a repipe or a drain line replacement inside the house.
A second tech, and the scheduling coordination that comes with it.
Permits and inspections, including the waiting time between them.
Equipment rentals, and the pickup and return trips.
A tow truck on a waterline pull.
Return visits, like commissioning a filtration system or a follow-up check a few months out.
Your own setup and cleanup time, protection, hauling, and daily tidying on a multi-day job.

The Big Job Helper lists these under “Things to Line Up” for a reason. If it needs to be lined up, it needs to be in the price.

By job type, what drives the hours

Common examples, not a complete list. Any job big enough to need real thought belongs here, and the same thinking applies.

Supply line repipe

Fixture count is your baseline, then adjust for everything else.
Wall material, how much has to be opened, and how much has to be patched.
Crawlspace or attic conditions, and how many floors are involved.
Whether shower valves get replaced at the same time.
How much of the existing routing you can reuse.

Drain repipe

Fixture count, plus how many floors have plumbing.
Slab, basement, or crawlspace, and where the lines currently run.
Whether lines come up through the floor or out of vertical walls.
Venting, and what reconnecting to it will take.
Cast iron removal if that's what's coming out.

Waterline

Length and depth, and whether a pull is realistic.
What's on top of it: sidewalk, driveway, patio, trees.
Other utilities in the path.
Entry point into the house and whether you're following the old path.
The backup plan if the pull fails.

Sewer line

Length, depth, and slab, wall, or crawlspace entry.
Municipal or septic, and full versus partial replacement.
Obstacles above the line and utilities crossing it.
Whether the concrete saw is needed.
Permits and utility marking lead time.

Filtration, softener, neutralizer

Space for the equipment, the tanks, and routing the supply lines.
Where backwash discharges to, and whether it's easy to reach.
Power availability within reach of the cord.
Whether pre- or post-filtration is part of the scope.
Bypass valving and the plumbing configuration around it.

Tankless water heater

Fuel type, and whether the gas line is sized correctly.
Mounting location, and intake and exhaust routing.
Condensate handling, including neutralizer or pump if needed.
Recirculation, internal or external.
Wall penetrations and how much finished surface is affected.

These are just examples. Complex pricing isn't limited to this list, plenty of other work belongs here: gas line runs, well and pump systems, septic work, bathroom and kitchen remodels, commercial jobs, anything multi-day, and anything you've never done before. If a job is big enough that you're unsure about the hours, treat it as complex pricing and use this same process.